Episode 9 – Your Spouse Hasn’t Hurt You As Much As You Think

Welcome to Marriage Mixed with Spencer and Shirley.

Marriage Mixed is a resource that opens the door on interracial marriage.

We share real experiences from our interracial marriage.

And let me tell you, it has not been easy, but it is rewarding.

We talk about our differences, what has worked for us, and what is still difficult.

We also share our views on important topics like food, from a white guy's perspective, and from a Haitian girl's perspective.

What is our goal?

Our goal is to reach people, like you, who may be struggling in an interracial marriage, and, through the sharing of our own story, prove to you that you are not alone.

The battle for your marriage is real, and thankfully, you have reinforcements.

Our hope is that by using this resource, you will grow in love and grace for your spouse, and ultimately find hope, help, and healing for your marriage.

Sometimes it will be tense, and other times you will be laughing with us as we discover new things about each other.

Thank you for joining us and enjoy this episode of Marriage Mixed.

Welcome to Marriage Mixed with Spencer and Shirley.

Today's topic is a good one, as usual.

It's called, Your Spouse Has It Hurt You As Much As You Think.

Or maybe they have, honey.

That's what we're going to talk about.

It's designed to elicit some responses.

But before we get into that, we have a couple of questions.

A question you can ask your spouse.

So this question is from a speed friending sheet that I got from a group, a woman's group that I'm in.

What does your ideal weekend look like?

You want me to answer?

Yes.

What does my ideal weekend look like?

This weekend was pretty nice.

I woke up, had plenty of time to myself in the morning.

Shirley was kind and let me stay in the bedroom while she took care of the kids.

So I very slowly woke up, fell back asleep, woke up, fell back asleep, got to read my Bible, the pray, came out, ate some food, helped my friends move a car, came back inside and knocked out for three hours.

This kind of reminds me of when we were first married, I think, and you would nap so much over the weekend and I'll be mad.

Like, boy, wake up.

But he pushed a car, a heavy car, and he was just-

The tires were flat.

It took him out.

Yes.

He knocked out after.

I saw our neighbor going out with his wife for an errand, but Spencer was knocked out.

That was his only activity of the day and it took him out.

It did.

But I recovered and I worked out later.

The cab was-

Yeah, I still pulled my cab.

I'm almost 30 y'all.

So, but that was pretty good.

Yeah, it worked out later.

We had fun.

What about you, honey?

What is your ideal weekend look like?

My ideal weekend would probably be doing stuff out of the house, but the house being completely clean, having minimal dishes to wash, eating out, but eating food that doesn't make you feel bad.

But also getting like something nice, like hot Krispy Kreme donuts because they taste good warm.

But a lot of times I don't really like donuts because of the aftertaste.

But like if they're hot, they're probably pretty good.

Or like I was thinking of wanting a cinnamon roll for a long time from Panera.

Panera cinnamon rolls are good.

Or like a acai bowl.

Yeah, just doing something out of the house for the house being clean.

Not being home.

I'm not really a home person, but I spend a lot of time at home, especially because we have two kids.

It's pretty hard to get out of the house.

And house is like just necessary when you have two little kids, you got to be here.

Do you say that it's changed since having little kids?

What your ideal weekend would be?

Or is it more or less the same as it would have been prior to children?

I guess before we had kids, we had way less dishes, less people to feed, and just like less work to do, less laundry, less picking up toys, less bringing kids to the bathroom and wiping their, like changing their diaper, and you know, all the stuff, giving them food multiple times a day, cleaning the bib, like all the repetitive stuff.

Like, yeah, I didn't really have that many like free weekends, I guess.

Like I was in college, then graduated, and then a couple months after that, we had, after I graduated, we had our first kid, like five months, six months after I graduated college.

It was COVID, super, very much COVID time.

So everyone was in the house and it didn't go anywhere, didn't fit the family riding bikes.

So I was just kind of home, and you were working.

You were going crazy then.

Yeah, I mean, oh, yeah.

All right.

Into the topic.

Into the topic.

So I think...

What made you think of this?

I don't remember.

Maybe it's like an argument we had or something that I realized was attributed to historical stuff.

Made me think of it.

I'm not sure.

I think when we're first married, or just even, you know, we talk about marriage a lot, but it's really just relationship.

When we're young in a relationship sense, and people hurt us, so we're adults, but we're still young relationally, I think we attribute the pain directly to that person.

Like, you hurt me so, so bad, when something happens, and we can tend to hold a grudge, or if we're not holding a grudge, you know, like in my case, I don't usually hold grudges.

I just come after the person until they apologize, trying to reconcile forcefully, forced reconciliation.

Really?

Yes.

You don't say.

It's easy now.

This is not the first time, maybe the second time you're admitting this.

I'm going to admit it more than that, but I guess you'd be a better judge than me.

Yeah, so we pin everything on to that person, but that's not actually the case.

I think this idea was born in my head from listening to talk radio.

It might have been Family Life or New Life Live.

I'm not sure what it was, but the guy talked about, and I may have even mentioned this on the podcast before, but he was saying that when our spouse hurts us, they can be hurting a bruise that's already there that started before.

So kind of like if you get hurt and you get bruised or something, and you bump the bruise again, it's like an exorbitant amount of pain for even a small bump, or like a broken bone or something like that.

You know, you have to be super tender with it because it's already busted.

And we are the same way emotionally.

We have dings and broken parts and things that have never healed.

And when we bump those things, we have a very strong reaction.

Ow, that hurts because it's already broken or hurt.

And so when we rub up against people that we love in our lives, and especially our spouses, we're bound to bump into those things and have a big reaction that can be really disproportionate or feel crazy or not make any sense.

Another good phrase that I've heard is if it's hysterical, it's historical.

If it doesn't make any sense at all, then it might be connected to something way deeper than what you're seeing right now, which is really, really telling.

There's a lot of good stories that I've heard from other people, but I wanted to focus on personal stories because that's more relatable to you all and more vulnerable.

So for myself, a couple weeks ago, and I'm pointing it up right now so that I don't misquote it, you and I had a small argument about our insurance.

Health insurance.

Yes.

Which before we got married, I researched and picked out and all this stuff.

And Shirley, in that moment, wasn't really appreciating that.

I didn't feel like she was appreciating it because she was critiquing the insurance that I picked out and its faults.

And I got pretty upset and hurt.

And actually, it wasn't even, it was beyond critiquing because we were talking with some friends about it.

And you had started answering all their questions about our insurance, and I didn't have the chance to share anything.

And I felt hurt by that.

But I wasn't critiquing it, really.

Yeah, sorry.

I was just sharing information about it, and you were upset because you weren't getting to share the information.

And you were upset probably because of the history of that and probably feeling like I don't appreciate it.

So you're just like...

Yeah, like why are you sharing about it when you don't even like it or didn't pick it out and all this stuff?

Like you felt offended that I was answering the questions and I wasn't letting you answer them.

Yeah, so it reminded me that I didn't feel appreciated way back when when we first got married, and I picked that out and throughout our marriage.

So it kind of goes like this, like I didn't feel appreciated when she was answering those questions.

It reminded me that she didn't value what I had picked.

That's how I felt.

And then going a step deeper than that, I haven't felt like she's appreciated it from the get go.

And then going like one more step, but way deeper goes back to when I was a kid and not feeling like I was appreciated for some of the things that, qualities that I had that are closest to my heart.

So it's kind of like the surface, a little deeper.

And the way I wrote it is I didn't feel appreciated, I haven't felt appreciated, I've never felt appreciated.

Poetic.

So yeah, Shirley bumped up against the bruise that I had, and I had a strong reaction and I was hurt by it.

And I was confused, like, why are you mad that I'm answering questions about something that we both use for the past couple years?

Like, I can answer questions about our insurance, but I was more to it than that.

Mm-hmm.

So yeah, that's an example how it worked, or how I've seen it work in my life.

I could definitely see your desire to be appreciated for stuff and also just like your nature of, like, the words of affirmation and stuff.

And I guess probably just being a man and wanting to feel or husband or whatever, like you chose good things and stuff like that or just that your efforts are noticed.

I wrote you stuff today.

Did you see it?

Mm-hmm.

I wrote it down.

You didn't?

Do you have an example for yourself where something might go back to something historical?

It can be anything.

I don't know.

Can you think of something for me?

I think maybe not liking being asked a whole bunch of questions might be.

But I don't think I get super mad or anything, but I just think I don't like being asked a whole bunch of intrusive questions.

Or probably just revealing stuff about myself or talking about myself in a way that I want to.

But I don't like being asked a whole bunch of pointed questions.

Because I feel like it's like.

Like you're being interrogated.

Yeah, or like being under a magnifying glass or something.

But that's probably just from stuff from my upbringing that makes me not like that.

So I guess that's not really about your spouse hurting you or something, but that's just how I am.

Well, I think it's on the same vein.

Like if I'm asking you questions and you start getting irritated or something, but I don't feel like that happens too much.

Usually you want me to ask you stuff.

But sometimes you do definitely get like standoffish.

I was talking with a friend a while ago that, I don't know, opened my eyes to something that was interesting, where they were feeling like when their spouse pursues them, it makes them want to withdraw because of some of their experiences as a kid and having to kind of regulate their parents as a child or one of their parents.

I thought that was really interesting because I'm one of the people who does pursue my spouse and stuff, like I never feel like bothered by being pursued or something like, no, like that feels cool.

It's not like, no, get away from me.

But if I had had an experience like that, yeah, like having the parent your parent, that's a terrible feeling.

So kind of helped me understand why some people might feel like bothered by people's pursuit.

And it gave me compassion for that.

And it kind of made me like sad because like my heart, when I pursue is like I sometimes it's twisted because I'm trying to regulate myself.

But other times it's just genuine.

Like, no, I really want to be with you and be close to you and get to know you.

But I can see how different things in your story can make you want to be like, get away from me.

Kind of.

Does that make sense?

I don't know if I see that in our relationship.

Do you feel like you ask me stuff and I'm like, leave me alone?

Yeah.

Like what?

Like, come home and hug you and kiss you and tell you I love you.

Okay, I'm not as physical touch as you.

Even if I just want to talk to you and stuff or hold your hand.

If you're not ready, then you're not ready.

I guess when you ask me, how am I?

I guess it's easier for me to tell you about stuff when I feel like it than if you ask me.

Yes, but then you're the same person.

Go ahead.

I'll talk way more because I want to than if you're like, oh, how are you?

It's like, okay, yeah.

Maybe I'm just not ready to talk.

I think that might be a historical example.

There's probably questions, maybe some questions you had that weren't kind or asked with a kind heart, and you could sense that, and you rebelled against that.

You could sense that there was some other motive versus a genuine interest or curiosity, which the natural response to that would be to share with someone who's safe and loves you.

But if that's not the experience you had, then how could you be expected to do that?

I mean, nobody was asking me how was my day.

That was another question.

I don't know.

But you don't gotta put that in, because I ain't trying to defame my people, but they're from the islands.

We don't really ask that.

Still?

We don't really, yeah.

There's still a lot of stuff.

It's not like we came home and had dinner together at the same time or something.

This is just a different upbringing.

I don't think you're defaming your people.

You're just stating it like it was, but the human heart is still the human heart.

It still has needs.

And every culture is grossly inefficient, basically, at meeting all those needs.

In different ways.

Yeah.

It's literally not just like...

And from family to family, too, because I will say like every person is like that.

There's probably people who are healthier, but there's people who are focused on just making sure we had enough and they're working a lot.

Mm-hmm.

It just has its merit, for sure.

Mm-hmm.

Kept us alive.

What is it?

I think it's the place we find ourselves.

It has a pretty interesting quote about...

I can't remember it, so I'm not going to quote him.

He said something to the effect of we raise children and give them everything that their body needs, but we basically starve their hearts, more or less.

Mm-hmm.

Which is like, oh, wow.

We can't deny that there's spiritual and emotional needs that are just as powerful as the physical.

It's good.

Yeah.

Sad, though, because I think most people grow up feeling starved.

Yeah.

Because they're just like a huge piece missing.

And yeah, I think that's another thing that goes back to our topic of your spouse hasn't hurt you as much as you think.

I heard this in some counseling circle, whether it was my own counselor or something that I was reading, that the way we interact with our spouses, like when we leave our parents, they're our primary attachment, which is basically a fancy way of saying they're where we find our security growing up.

That's how we regulate ourselves when things are crazy with our parents.

And we switch from using our parents to regulate to using our spouse to regulate.

We literally just like plug and play.

So the way that we were related to our parents, we literally take that and use that to relate to our spouse.

You saying that reminded me of the Place We Find Ourselves episodes that our counselor recommended to us a long time ago.

I think it's episodes five and six.

Adam Young, The Place We Find Ourselves.

Fantastic material.

Or maybe it's just five.

Maybe it's attachment, what it is, and why it matters so much.

Or maybe it's number five, one, two, three, four, five, and seven.

So a while ago, a long time ago, maybe a year or two or something, our counselor recommended two podcasts on Adam Young's podcast about attachment.

So if you want to learn more about that, it's really good.

It's good, because you can have insecure attachments or secure attachments.

Oh man, you attach in different ways.

I should probably maybe, I don't know, go back and listen or something, because I don't remember the details, but it is really insightful to yourself and your spouse.

So if you go on his podcast, it's episode one, two, three, four, five, and seven.

I think it was attachment, what it is, and why it matters so much, and how your attachment style affects the way you relate to other people.

Oh, that.

Basically, the whole reason I brought up that we're plugging, unplugging from our parents, and then plugging back into our spouse, is that I found for myself, and I think it's from everything that I've heard is true for most couples, is that basically I make you almost like a parent, but a wife at the same time, where I'm expecting you to be able to regulate me when I'm dysregulated, but you're my peer, and you can't do that.

So, that's something that I've had to learn.

What do you want to talk about now?

Go ahead with Shirley's fun fact.

I don't know if it's really a fun fact.

It's more like a cooking fact, I guess.

But if you think you can't cook, or your food isn't good, it might not be you.

It might be the ingredients.

It's something I discovered.

Because when I started shopping for myself, I was like a broke college student.

Probably saw news things that are like, oh, by generic, they're basically the same.

And buying better quality stuff is actually really makes a difference in the flavor of the meals.

So sometimes it may not be your methods or the way you cook it, it really might just be the ingredients.

When I first started making lasagna, and I was making using canned tomatoes or tomato products that were great value or whatever, versus using hunts, canned tomatoes that were of better quality and taste better.

It made such a difference.

We used to buy Walmart's ground beef, and their quality meat is very much not good.

But Publix, on the other hand, is pretty good, pretty fresh.

And you just have to do way less work, because the food just tastes way better.

It reminds me of Papa John's, when they're like, better ingredients, better pizza, even though their pizza is not that great to us anymore.

But it's like the quality of the ingredients, like the quality of the meat really makes a difference.

So sometimes it might not be your cooking, it might be the ingredients.

So try, if you have the money, try buying like some fresher meat at a better grocery store, or like buying name brand instead of the generic brand.

What do you think?

I think it's super, super true.

I think like your chili, how you just switch the spices you're using, it was like dramatically better.

Like you can stop eating it versus, yeah, it was great.

Versus great value.

Because great value is cheap, and McCormick's was kind of expensive.

Huge difference.

But yeah, it tastes way better.

Fussle spices are old, and just like clump together, bang it before you use it or whatever.

I was thinking of how that could relate to marriage too.

Like, I don't know, maybe I'm getting too philosophical, but like what ingredients are you putting in your marriage?

Like what are you listening to in your free time?

What are you watching?

Like are you putting ingredients in that are good, or are you just like putting in trash?

You might start getting trash out.

You are what you eat.

Mm-hmm.

So hopefully this podcast is a good ingredient that you can add to your marriage and add some spice and flavor.

What?

Are you a Dr.

Pepper commercial?

Dr.

what?

They're like, what do they say in the Dr.

Pepper?

53 spices or something?

I don't know.

53.

I don't watch TV, so homeschool.

53 somethings.

Seven seven.

Well, thank you for listening.

We could close with prayer.

Father, thank you for the hearts and ears that listen to this podcast.

Thank you for giving us ears and hearts so we can hear you and feel you and your love.

I pray that the messages that we communicate in these podcasts would warm people's hearts towards you and that it wouldn't be our words, our experiences, but it would be you reaching out to your children and warming their hearts so that they can hear something that they can relate to and know that they're not alone and know that there's hope for their marriage and for their spouse and that they can just have an incredible amount of peace knowing that there's hope in the future because I feel like Satan takes every chance he can to steal away our hope and to convince us that our spouses are the reason that we're miserable and sin is the reason that we're miserable.

So please protect people from the lies of the devil.

Protect myself, protect Shirley from painting a totally false picture about who the enemy actually is.

In your name I pray, amen.

Amen.

Amen.