Episode 13 – Your Kids Aren’t Bad

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Welcome to Marriage Mixed with Spencer and Shirley.

Marriage Mixed is a resource that opens the door on interracial marriage.

We share real experiences from our interracial marriage, and let me tell you, it has not been easy, but it is rewarding.

We talk about our differences, what has worked for us, and what is still difficult.

We also share our views on important topics, like food, from a white guy's perspective and from a Haitian girl's perspective.

What is our goal?

Our goal is to reach people, like you, who may be struggling in an interracial marriage and, through the sharing of our own story, prove to you that you are not alone.

The battle for your marriage is real and thankfully, you have reinforcements.

Our hope is that by using this resource, you will grow in love and grace for your spouse, and ultimately, find hope, help and healing for your marriage.

Sometimes, it will be tense, and other times, you'll be laughing with us as we discover new things about each other.

Thank you for joining us and enjoy this episode of Marriage Mixed.

Hey guys, we're back.

Hello, welcome to Marriage Mixed with Shirley and...

Spencer.

So tonight, the girls, the our two oldest daughters were playing in their beds.

When they were supposed to-

You're just gonna launch right into it without any kind of explanation of why we've been missing for the last 10 months or something?

Yeah, I am.

Okay.

Yeah, so the girls, the older girls were playing in their beds when they were supposed to be sleeping.

And Spencer went in there and just looked at them.

When he came out of their room, I was like, what did you say?

And he was like, he shook his head and he didn't say anything.

He just looked at them.

And I was like, so hyped.

I was like, where did you learn that from?

Like, I was like, so you're black now.

Like, none of your parents did, neither of your parents did that while you were growing up.

Like, where did you learn that from?

And I kept saying it to him.

And he finally told me, he was from watching this video where this black guy was like showing his different parenting, black parenting styles through different eras.

Anyway, that's something I do to the kids sometimes, is I just give them a look.

But I felt like it's inherited through my bloodline.

You look, give them a look, and they know not to try it.

So it was very interesting when my white husband did it.

I think to some degree, every parent has that ability or does that at some point.

Like every kid knows when their parent gives them a certain look that things are about to get real.

Did either of your parents do that?

I'm sure they did, like, I don't know.

I guess I don't have vivid memories of that specific thing, but.

Anyway, I thought it kind of went well with some of the things we're going to talk about tonight when it has to do with parenting.

What did you think it would go well with?

Because we were going to cover some topics about parenting.

Do you want to start on those?

I guess I just felt like for closure or continuity, there should be some conversation about the huge gap when we were releasing about one episode a month to like none for however many months, I don't even know, seven months, ten months, many months.

It's been like a year, I think.

So how would you sum up what's happened over those past few months?

Go ahead.

So I was asking you, but work transitioning to another job was a huge one.

I am working a lot of hours, which has made it pretty hard to do anything but work and chores at home, and yeah, work and chores.

That's pretty much been my life and your life too.

So we haven't had a lot of moments together except to fall asleep.

And even then, we don't do that together sometimes.

One will fall asleep before the other.

Yeah, life has been, feels kinda like overwhelming sometimes, or I don't know, like I'm at my max with three kids that are one, three, and four and a half.

It feels pretty like a lot.

But yeah, the Lord has blessed us.

We finally got a second car.

The whole time we've been shooting that podcast, we probably only had one car, except for one of the couriers Spencer was in.

He had a work vehicle that he could use just for work.

So I could still get around, but we haven't had a second vehicle for a really long time.

But we finally got a second vehicle.

So that has been like a blessing, a huge blessing because it was a huge struggle to only have one car.

And five members of the family, when it has to do with going to work, grocery trips, doctor's appointments.

And yeah, everything, especially for me, I felt like because I would be the one doing the grocery.

So it's either I had to do it like at night after everybody went to bed, I'm going out at like 9 p.m.

or something, and coming home and feeling exhausted and still having to prep what I brought from the store or whatever.

Or like on the weekends, but it feels like there's only one weekend day because on Sunday is church.

So, and then yeah, just made it hard for when it came to doctors appointments, which is more often, you have a lot of doctors appointments in the first year of your child's life, which we had a child who was under a year old last year.

Don't look at other people's marriages and be like, I wish, I wish we were like them or they got it all together.

Because even if people don't talk about the struggles that they're going through, like they might be going through some real struggles that you don't want any parts of.

Like seriously.

I agree.

Like even like your own family might not know the extent of like the struggles that you're going through, which is okay.

Your family doesn't need to know everything you're going through.

But like don't just don't look at somebody and be like, I wish I had this about them, because like you don't know the half of it.

Yeah, I think in general, that's good.

It just goes back to not being envious.

Yeah, being grateful for what you have, which can be hard when you don't have a lot.

It's hard.

I think that's where we've been for a while.

So I think I can relate to those feelings.

Yeah, I think there are certain ways where we didn't have the things that we wanted or felt like we needed.

But in other ways, we can also be like we've had, we have a lot and we're blessed.

What ways are you thinking of?

I don't know.

You can just say, we always have food, we have shelter, whatever.

We have more than a lot of people in the world might have or other people in America.

But in other ways, we have struggled and do struggle.

We only had one car for a long time.

And then beyond that, we didn't have AC in our car for two months.

I don't know if you want to say that.

But that was absolutely miserable.

So to only have one car, and then when you only have one car, the one car you have in Florida, does not have AC.

So it's like, you're already limited in how often you can go to where you need to go, but now you don't want to go because you're going to be like sweating.

It was just like, yeah.

Seems like it was exceptionally hard for you.

It was very tough for me.

I didn't like it.

And like we had like a baby that was under one years old, and I don't want to be sweating by the time I get to my location.

I don't want to be hot in the car.

Like, I don't want my little baby overheating.

Yeah.

Marriage is hard.

Life is hard.

Don't look at other people and think they have it together, because they probably don't.

Do you think anyone was looking at us thinking we have it together?

I feel like some people can look at me and put me on a pedestal.

But I don't think I should be put on a pedestal.

What?

That's just an interesting thing to say.

That's just how I feel.

But I don't think I should be put on a pedestal.

What makes you think that people are putting you on a pedestal?

I just can't, I don't know.

I just feel like people can look at me and think something about me.

But I'm not anything, really.

I struggle with my own stuff.

Our marriage has struggled with our own stuff.

Like, I'm, you know.

What do you think people think?

Like, have a goody two shoes view of you or something?

Because I guess from the way it's said, in my head, I think that you're saying, like, yeah, there's probably a lot of people who admire me.

And that's what it sounds like.

That's not what I'm saying, that people admire me.

But yeah, they could, there's definitely people who probably think like the goody two shoes thing.

Why?

Because you're married and have a family.

Probably because I'm like a Christian and like have been a Christian basically my most of my life.

And, you know, have a moral code that I kind of try to follow.

But yeah, I'm nothing special.

Hmm.

I think I see what you're saying.

But I'm not saying, oh, I'm great or something.

Thanks for clarifying.

Because I'm not great.

Spencer and my kids will tell you.

I think you're great.

I love you.

So it sounds like we were planning to talk about parenting.

Yeah.

For at least one of our topics.

You had a few points.

One of them was taking 15 minutes to accommodate your kid's request.

Do you want to go into that?

Sure.

I just wanted to say that different topics we're touching on, they're really just talking points for us to share what we're thinking.

And to get you guys thinking too, just create conversation and kind of see where we're at in your life.

And for us to figure out where we're at with different things.

One of those things was a dear customer of mine, who was a young mother a little bit further along than we are.

And we were talking about parenting and stuff, and she was saying how it's really hard.

And a lot of people will say, and any parent knows this and probably are annoyed by it, or just you hear it a lot if you're not annoyed by it, which is it'll go so fast, like raising your kids.

It'll go so fast, you know, don't miss it or whatever.

But she said that she feels like she looks at it a little bit different, which is basically don't miss the little moments per se, which sounds kind of the same.

But she was like saying how she tries to focus in and just be with her kids.

Like, for example, her daughter, who's like six years old, would beg her to play.

And she's like, do you know how much I have to do?

Like, she works from home.

She's got a teenager that she has the card all around the place.

She has another kid that's in school.

And she's got this little kid who's also in school, I believe, and her husband, and dinner, and food, and like, it's like impossible.

Like, you know, it feels ridiculous.

But really, as she pointed out, her daughter is just asking to be with her, which is great.

That's actually really, really good.

And of course she wants to be there for her daughter.

So, instead of committing to like two hours, she'll just commit to like 15 minutes of playing with her daughter and detaching from all that stuff so that she can meet her daughter's request, which is really just to be with her.

So, that was a good reminder for me, because my kids will ask me for ridiculous stuff that I don't want to do, or at least in my eyes, is ridiculous.

But really, they're just like saying, I want to be with you, daddy, or I want you to notice what I'm doing, or I want your affirmation, and those things are easier for me to understand as an adult, but as a kid, they don't know how to say that, so they're going to be like, watch me do this, as they flop on the floor, or run across the room and then jump.

And it's like, I've seen you do this 10 times already, and it's not impressive at all, which is how I'm thinking, but really, they're like, I want you to notice me and appreciate me.

It's just the truth.

So I think it was a really good reminder for me on that.

And then also the guilt of parenting.

People don't talk about that enough, or we just don't have enough time to meet with other parents and talk.

But she actually brought that up without me even prompting her, which is something that I need, because I feel super guilty for just all the mistakes that I make.

And instead of wallowing in guilt when she makes a mistake, she thinks, okay, that was really bad, but tomorrow I can change it and do something different.

Whereas I tend to view, if I do something really bad, I'm like, well, it's all over.

Yes, I'll just pay for their counseling.

And I've done that like so many times in my head, because it just like feels so insurmountable to apologize or try and do better, but she's just committing to doing better on that one thing tomorrow, and it's like, okay, couldn't do that.

So those are some really good tips that I got.

I just wanted to make a conversation around.

I think that's good.

I think, yeah, that's good.

Just stopping for like two minutes to color a figure on their coloring page or whatever, like watch them play for a minute or so, it's really good.

You don't have to like set aside like a chunk of time to do it.

But like as it comes up, just being able to drop what you're doing just for a little bit makes a difference.

How have you been able to do that?

I think today, I like stopped after, because you told me that story yesterday.

So today, our older daughter wanted to, me to play with her for a little bit, or play with her.

So I just stopped and played with her for a couple of minutes.

What were you doing?

Like what were you actually playing?

With our baby doll, I think.

Were you putting clothes on it or something?

No, I was just pretending stuff.

With it, which is hard to like think of, but made it happen, interested them.

I wanted you to be more specific because I think doing the stuff can feel so ridiculous.

Or like, I don't know, in my head, I almost always explain a way doing it because it's like, I don't have to do this.

But sometimes you really are there helping fit the third tutu on.

No, I was just like, oh, I was making, I was asking our oldest daughter to make her baby doll trace the letter A.

I was like, can you show her how to trace the letter A?

Okay, how about lowercase a?

What sound does that letter make?

What are examples of what starts with that letter?

And then I was like, can you make her do the letter P?

And like, yeah.

So I was basically doing what I do to her, making her do it to her baby doll.

That's good.

So she got some letter practice and letter sounds and writing and stuff.

That's good.

That's a good example.

Thanks for sharing.

What else do we have?

So I had some thoughts from a while ago.

Your kids aren't bad.

They just need a nap.

Sometimes kids are acting like just keep making bad choices.

But it's not because they're like a bad kid.

Like it's because they're tired.

Like they just need to take a nap.

Like you can see the bags under their eyes, and they will never...

I'm not tired.

They will never admit it.

At least some of them will ever admit it.

But they're just tired.

And it's an absolute struggle to get toddlers or like young kids to take a nap sometimes.

But like they just need it, and you have to figure out how to make it happen.

Give them a nap and they'll be like the most amazing children like in that first 20 minutes after they wake up.

It's like a new day.

And then I had your kids aren't bad, they're just hungry.

That's another thing.

Like they might be making bad choices.

Like have you ever been angry?

Like you're hungry, so you're angry.

Like they are hungry too.

Like I saw this on social media a long time ago.

Of this parent, I think talking about like something about breakfast with kids in the morning or something like that.

And I realized like I need to give these kids breakfasts like way sooner when they wake up because like they are hungry.

That's why they're not making good choices and making life difficult, especially because kids go to sleep way earlier or ideally go to sleep way earlier than their parents.

So let's say they go to sleep.

They go to sleep at like eight or nine p.m.

And then they wake up at seven a.m.

Like us parents been up until like midnight and we maybe had dessert.

Possibly snacking.

Yeah, Spencer is a snacky snack.

You be snacking too?

Not really.

I don't really snack at night.

Coconut popsicle girl.

You snack at night.

You eat like you be eating snackalicious.

No.

You know, don't try to deflect.

Spencer is a snacky snacker at night.

He be eating like three snacks.

Munchy, munchy, munch.

I eat like one thing sometimes.

Anyway.

One thing sometimes.

Why are you trying to deflect so hard?

You can eat snacks.

It's okay to eat snacks, honey.

I just like roasting you.

I know I eat snacks.

It's okay to eat snacks.

Like you can eat snacks.

Is it okay for you to eat snacks?

To have a healthy relationship with eating snacks and with food.

Are you comfortable with snacks?

I am comfortable.

I'm pretty comfortable with myself.

I'll eat a bunch of dessert and be like, it's okay.

Anyway.

Yes, where are we?

Yeah.

They've been sleeping for a long time, and they have not eaten anything since dinner.

So they are hungry.

Get them some food and they will be much better decision-making.

Little humans, little people.

Your kids aren't bad.

They just need to pee.

Sometimes one of our children starts bouncing around everywhere, and she can't stop moving.

And lo and behold, when you tell her to sit down because of her behavior, and you put her in one place, like, oh, go sit on like that chair, all of a sudden she needs to pee.

So what was actually going through her body?

She needed to pee.

And that's why she started to, she didn't want to break away and go pee on her own will, or maybe it didn't connect in her mind.

So sometimes they might be making bad choices or acting, you know, all over the place, but they just have a need in their body that needs to be met.

And then your kids aren't bad.

You're just angry.

Maybe you're angry about something.

Your kids aren't bad.

You're just triggered.

Maybe you're triggered by something.

I know for me, sometimes I might be getting mad at the kids or like more easily angry at the kids, but it might not be because of them.

It might be because of me.

Like it might be I'm angry at something, or maybe there's a need in my body that is not being met and I'm taking care of them.

Like maybe I need to use the bathroom.

Maybe I need to eat something, and it's not.

All these questions go back to the parent as well.

Maybe you need a nap.

Yeah.

Sometimes parents, we're waking up like three times at night.

Like Spencer, if the kids need to use the bathroom in the middle of the night, he's usually the one taking them.

Or like our youngest daughter, if she's waking up in the middle of the night and I'm up with her, or like holding her and nursing her or whatever.

Like I might be tired from the night before, and that makes me have a shorter temper.

So, it might not be, you know, there can just be external factors going on that can affect, you know, life.

Yes.

Agreed.

I was thinking that maybe some of that was inspired, or maybe the very last point was inspired by habits of the household.

Um, I don't think so.

I don't remember what.

Or maybe you're just angry or whatever.

I feel like the book pointed out, like, parental triggers that we blame our children for.

But that's really because we're getting triggered by their behavior, or their own insecurities or needs or whatever.

I don't know.

When I was rereading that list, I was like, what made me think of, I don't remember what made me think of the trigger thing.

Well, either way, that's a good book.

That's worth a shout out.

Yeah, it's called A Habits of the Household by Justin Whitmel.

It's a good book so far.

I haven't read the whole thing yet.

Yeah.

We were reading it together, and it detailed how our own insecurities or needs are reflected through how we interact with our children.

For example, like, you might get really strict with your kids when you're out in public because you don't want to be viewed as an incompetent parent, which I definitely feel that.

But it's just interesting, really good points from a Christian author talking about how to deal with kids and his family.

Another point that I thought would be an interesting talking point is just exercise in children.

I wonder how this worked in my parents' era.

I know that they worked out a lot, but I guess I have more memories of that when I was older, like old enough to take care of myself and make my own breakfast and stuff like that.

But my dad always worked out early in the morning and I kept, I waited with anticipation until I was 13 and old enough to work out with him early in the morning.

And then my mom would always walk really early in the morning and then later she picked up some other exercises that she did later in the day with other women.

But it was usually times when everybody was gone or otherwise unavailable.

I feel like having our kids so close together and me working so much, I don't have time to do a full workout without sacrificing.

And just taking out the garbage and all this other stuff that I have to do.

So for me, I've only been able to, the only way I've been able to make it work is by doing one set of an exercise every night, which would be unthinkable back when I used to work out and do like three full workouts a week or even more.

What's one set?

Like you do like a certain amount of reps three times?

No, just one set of like 25 pushups.

So you just do literally 25 pushups?

You'd be doing more than that.

You'd be doing more than one set.

That's the thing.

You commit to something small, you might end up being able to do a little bit more or wanting to do more.

But that's all that I hold myself to.

There's one set of something every day, which, you know, I'm not a giant or something, but I have been able to maintain strength and get stronger.

Yeah, but being a giant is people on steroids.

So don't tell our listeners that you're not a giant when you know that most of those men out there are on steroids if they look like a giant.

Uh, yeah.

Okay.

So yeah, how does it work for you, honey?

Exercising with children.

I know you used to run for like miles every single day.

You certainly don't do that anymore.

Not every day.

When I was in college, I used to run a couple miles, like probably like three times a week or something.

And in the high school, I used to be on cross country and track team.

But when I became a parent, after I had our first child, I started, like I found this lady on Instagram, and she's on YouTube and has her own blog.

And I started doing strength training exercises, which is like lifting weights.

Yeah, her name is Lindsey Bomgren.

Her website is nourishmovelove.com.

So she has a YouTube and a blog and stuff.

I really like her content.

Yeah, so I've been following her for like, like five years or something, just doing strength, like she has videos.

So what I do is I usually work out maybe like two to three times a week.

Sometimes it's when the kids are awake, sometimes it's when they're taking a nap, sometimes it starts off with them taking a nap and it ends up with them being awake.

Sometimes it starts off with them being awake and it ends up with them being a nap, taking a nap.

Sometimes it bleeds into the evening.

Basically, I pause a lot for myself, but also like if they're awake, then I might have to pause a lot to make them use the bathroom, to change a diaper.

Or if someone poops or whatever calls for me in mom life.

So most workouts take forever.

They might be 20 to 30 minutes, but they might take one to two hours or something.

Some of it is just me.

I just get tired and I want to pause.

I heard a statistic a long time ago that like, I don't know if it's the mother or something, but basically we have a huge, I think it's the mother has like a huge, I don't even know if it's the mother.

Parents have a huge influence on like, you know, the health of their kids, basically.

Them seeing you do it.

I think it's the mother, but I don't know.

So this is not a good statistic because I really don't remember it.

Well, anything kids watch their parents do will have a huge influence.

Like, I watched my parents work out their whole lives, and I kind of always knew that I'd be working out my whole life.

And I'm grateful for that.

That's good.

My parents didn't work out at all, but...

They worked.

Oh my goodness.

They still work.

I was going to say, but they had physical jobs.

Yeah, like, they work.

Oh, man.

It's just the difference of type of careers, culture and whatever else.

I was thinking we could wrap it up soon because it's getting a little late.

Okay.

Did you have a fun fact that you were ready to share, or I see you pulled up something?

Do I have a fun fact?

I feel like I thought of something, but I don't remember what I thought of.

Hmm.

Stainless steel pans can be like non-stick if you heat it up correctly.

So what you do is you...

Stainless steel pans, in case anyone else was thinking stainless steel pants.

That's what I heard.

Is there such a thing?

I was not aware that there was, but I was really questioning for a second there.

Yes.

So heat it up, like medium heat with nothing in it.

And then you can test it by putting a few drops of water in there.

And if the drops of water sizzle and evaporate, then it's not hot enough or not preheated correctly.

But if the water beads up and moves around the pan, then it is heated up well.

And then you add olive oil or whatever oil to the pan and let that heat up a little bit.

And if it's like shimmering, I think if it's like shimmering, then it's good.

And then you add whatever you need to add to the pan.

If you're adding oil, then it's not non-stick.

Because everyone knows oil is the barrier that makes things not stick.

So if you add oil to it, then...

I mean, who doesn't add oil to whatever they're cooking with?

A lot of people.

Who?

Oil is not bad.

Like, my parents' era is all the DuPont Teflon era where you don't.

Yeah, but even in Teflon pans, you still add an oil.

No.

Yes, you do.

I'm telling you how I grew up, hun.

Okay, well, people don't do that no more.

Not that I know of.

Anyway, I'm just saying, like, you don't need a pan with a non-stick coating that's actually toxic if it gets heated up to too high of a temperature, or if you're scratching it with a metal cooking utensil, you can just use stainless steel and heat it up correctly and get a non-stick enough surface that you can literally put stainless steel in the dishwasher.

You can use a metal spatula or a metal spoon and not have to worry about it.

Just look it up, like how to make stainless steel non-stick.

It's actually called a certain reaction, I think, that I don't know the name of.

And you can use it to cook a lot of stuff.

And you can put it in a dishwasher, like maybe scrub it a little in the sink.

And if you don't feel like washing that by hand, stick that thing in the dishwasher if it fits.

It's not as heavy as cast iron.

Classic disagreement on using a dishwasher or not.

Yes.

That was a cultural difference.

I think we've already covered that, but...

Yeah, we have.

Like make your life easier.

Like, why are you still washing dishes by hand?

Like you don't have to prove anything to anybody.

Stick it in the dishwasher.

Duh.

Okay.

I mean, I still wash stuff by hand.

If it doesn't fit in the dishwasher, you know, I still gotta wash stuff by hand.

Do you ever think like in marriage or life in general, if you went back to your old self a couple of years ago with some of the things you know now or are okay with that you weren't okay with or the things that you said you never do that now you do?

I don't know what the question was.

Oh, like now you're saying like, duh about the dishwasher before you were adamant not to use one.

I want to say that.

Who the heck?

But you know, I had to keep it PG.

It's a duh.

That would be interesting.

It's actually interesting the things I said I wouldn't, I don't think I'll ever do.

Like I never thought I would make cinnamon rolls.

Like, yeah, I'm going to buy those.

That's too much work.

But I actually made cinnamon rolls at the end of the year.

And it was actually fun, which was crazy to me.

And it has brought me on to making bread journey.

Not like loads of my own sliced bread, but like different bread, like dinner rolls or I made pita bread today.

So, yeah, it's weird.

Don't ever say, I guess you should never say it.

Like that'll never be like, I'll never do that because you might.

Why not you?

Why not believe in you?

If you don't believe in you, then hopefully your man or woman believes in you and can lift you up.

Why not you?

You were made in the image of God.

How should we wrap it up?

Do you have anything?

Any fun fact?

What did you think you would never do in marriage, but now you're doing?

You never thought you would clean the bathroom?

I never really thought about being married to a black woman.

Well, thanks.

I never thought about, I don't know, like being very married to strong political views and softening on some of those.

Or not softening, but like just being able to see different perspectives and valuing those.

And never wanted to be a salesperson, that's what I am now.

I thought they were all liars, and really didn't want to be a liar.

But we should probably wrap it up.

It's good night.

Cause Spencer's falling asleep.

Well, no, cause I need sleep to work.

Alright, guys.

Thanks for listening.

Thanks for all the feedback that we've heard through the past year.

Thank you for joining us for this episode of Marriage Mixed.

Cue the music.